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A while back there was a huge debate about women in search. The topic being whether or not there were enough of us and some statements that women in search tend to be more geared towards search engine marketing rather than search engine optimization.
I was surprised to get emails from people waiting to hear my viewpoint on the topic. I’m not sure why they were curious on mine, but I never did respond to the topic, because I couldn’t figure out a way to put my opinions into words.
When Li Evans interviewed me for her women in search series, she asked me what women bloggers I was reading, but the question and my answer didn’t make the final interview. My answer was longwinded as usual, but I ended it by stating that I’d like to think that many women marketers are like me. I’d rather be known as a kick ass Internet marketer and search engine optimization professional, regardless of whether or not I wear a bra.
Being a woman is something I’m proud of, and I’m not blind to the ratio of women to men - especially among those with widely heard voices - within this industry. But being a successful woman in this industry doesn’t mean you’ve “overcome” some kind of odds. There are many successful women in search engine optimization. Two in the immediate forefront of my mind are Christine Churchill and Anne Kennedy.
For the record, I don’t respect either of them for being a “woman” in this industry. I respect them for their business sense, knowledge and contributions to search engine optimization. And that is why you should respect them too.
I catch some flack sometimes for being outspoken, perceived as “one of the boys” and for not being willing to conform - but I have to be “me” and take what comes with it. To others like me, and to women still trying to find their inner confidence to be themselves and take the opportunities they make in life, rather than those simply “presented” to them, I share a quote with you: “Women who behave rarely make history.”
Which is a modernized version of the original: “Well behaved women rarely make history” and sometimes also quoted as: “Well behaved women seldom make history” by Laurel Thatcher Ulrich. Be yourselves, never see being a woman as a disadvantage, an advantage or above all, an excuse.
Yes, I’m representing two sides of the same coin. Be proud of being a woman and representing women well. But don’t feel the need to be acknowledged for being a successful woman. Look to derive your satisfaction from being a success, period.
And in the spirit of never conforming, my response on the matter is simply this: For those looking for validation as a successful woman in this industry, get over it. For those who take their validation from spanking ass in the serps without needing their sex acknowledged along with it, rock on ladies.
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Hell yes, Rae. I utterly and completely agree with this post. This just validates why I love you.
I agree with all of your points, Rae. Speaking only for myself and my own personal experiences, I appreciate women who work in any tech field. This is because my peers in Tech were rarely American.
For whatever reasons, women aren’t encouraged to learn technical skills and some, not all, but some that do give it up when they become mothers.
The women I worked with in all my work in IT or web design were from Russia, India, China and Korea. Two were from the USA and were not as skilled or dedicated.
I happened to mention to someone not long ago that I knew I was paid $10,000 less than my male counterparts in software testing. He was stunned to hear this still goes on. My coworkers felt it was unfair because I worked just as hard as them and won the same awards they did.
There are gender differences and some of them are cruel. It may not happen in the SEO world, but it does happen in Tech and it left a hell of an impression on me.
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Oh, Kim, I totally agree it’s bullshit that women don’t make as much as men. But, that’s all over - not limited to tech, Internet or anywhere in corporate America.
>>>some that do give it up when they become mothers
That says something of their priorities. Some women find motherhood to way outweigh their careers - for them. And more power to them. I’m sure giving up a career when you enter parenthood is surely more a “mom” thing to do, but being a mom and having a career is doable - it comes down to your priorities. I love my children, but I also love my career and for me, my priority was finding a way for them to co-exist.
>>>not as skilled or dedicated
Again, I’m going to toss that up to their own priorities and drive. I can find tons of lazy men who fit the same description. ;-)
>>>was paid $10,000 less than my male counterparts
But, that was kind of the whole point I was aiming for… that *is* total bullshit. But, we can’t be asking for special recognition as women on one hand and equal pay for women on the other. We need to be proud of being women internally, but in the real scheme of things - our sex shouldn’t matter, only the quality of our work. That’s why I hate seeing women paid less than men for the same job when they deserve the same pay as much as I hate seeing people want special recognition for being a woman in any field.
“our sex shouldn’t matter, only the quality of our work.”
That says it all right there.
I remember when I was a single mom doing all this stuff and that seemed to set me apart, as if I’d reached some goddess stage because I could accomplish a lot. Bah!
I hated that too. Men are single parents too and perform the same miracles I did. In any case, I admire your standing up and saying something.
You’re completely right. Is it illegal to treat any differently based on gender?
Some people just can’t get over the fact that this is not the old (old) geeks playground anymore when women were as rare as the Kakapo Parrot.
The only thing I would tell one of those guys is: “Grow up and get over it!”
The chance to deal with a women in affiliate marketing on either end is today close to 50/50.
That used to be a lot different just a few years back. I have never noticed any problems with that there. As a matter of fact, there are a number of great and well respected women in the industry that made a name for themselves (no, not as booth babe).
I didn’t think that this is so much of an issue in search marketing. I see in that industry also more and more women playing an active role….. duh… I am preaching to the choir .. Q.E.D. :)
The world does not need more “men with boobs”. Wherever women go, they will naturally bringing other helpful angles to the industry in which they participate (no pun intended). Women and men are not the same physically, emotionally, psychically or in any other way. I think it’s wonderful that you’re able to be a valued contributor, not only regardless of, but in part because of your gender.
However, I don’t understand your need (or the need of so many women) to use the term “bitch” when referring to themselves. Isn’t it possible to demand respect from those around you without appropriating thug terminology? I taught my daughter that people who use the terms “bitch” and “ho” to refer to women aren’t worth 5 minutes of her time. It gets more confusing when it’s a woman using the term. I don’t understand why respectable, valuable, contributing women need to keep dragging that crap out…and, in some cases, slapping it on their chests as a badge of honor.
I don’t know you, personally, Rae…so I can’t comment directly about your use of the term. But I confess, I really don’t understand this one.
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LOL… I assume you’re referring to “rants in bitchland”… in all actuality, “rants in bitchland” has existed for years and years - its actually a crossover category from my old blog… and it is meant as rants in bitchland as in bitch meaning: gripe: informal terms for objecting; “I have a gripe about the service here”… not rants in “sheisabitch land”. ;-) That said, I know I’m guilty of having referred to myself as a bitch. But, that is because the modern day version has evolved a bit to include women who are tough or whom people dislike. I would never ever refer to myself as a “ho” and would slap the shit out of anyone who did (and my hits are like my SEO skills hehe)… I think “bitch” has a bit different of a meaning to my generation (late twenties/early thirties) - it does to me anyway.
I think you have excellent points in this…your comment “That’s why I hate seeing women paid less than men for the same job when they deserve the same pay as much as I hate seeing people want special recognition for being a woman in any field.” perfectly sums up how I feel as well. It’s an interesting topic and I’m glad to see it being discussed in so many places.
I feel like only women should be commenting… but I enjoyed the read and the discussion.
So, in other words…you’ll calling me an “old fogey”. Ouch…but…guilty as charged! ;-)
Wow - as usual this topic brings out a lot of discussion… and a lot of feelings.
I agree with Rae. Being a woman is something I am proud of in any circumstance.
If a male colleague (so to speak) in the field is silly enough to think that just because I’m a woman I must be less clued up, or less serious about my career, than that’s his mistake… and his problem.
I’ve been very fortunate to find my way through search surrounded by male counterparts, that have not only been supportive, but enthusiastic about the female kind entering the field. I think for every chauvinistic old timer out there, there are just as many guys that welcome the refreshing angle women provide to the search industry.
It’s roughly the same in the internet marketing sector as well, less techie - I know, but just as much in need of more female voices.
BTW, I’m actually really chuffed (this is a south african term, hopefully means something similar in the US vocabulary) that you’re speaking out about this, Rae. You’re one of the first ladies in Search that I met, and I’d be right in saying that a lot of women in the business, respect you, your knowledge and your opinion. So it’s good to hear where you stand on this one too…
Right on - couldn’t have said it better. I’m often annoyed at the need to make it a big deal that you can be a woman and successful. Of course you can - it goes without saying in this day and age. I don’t think we women are being oppressed (especially in this industry) - there are just fewer of us taking certain tracks in life per our own prerogative. I for one am a fellow (coincidentally female) SEO professional but never really gave it much thought that as a woman I’d overcome some hurdle that wasn’t there for men; it just isn’t the case! I also wakeboard, snowboard, snow mobile and play a lot of sports - does that make me less of a woman? If you saw my freshly manicured nails you certainly wouldn’t think so!
I think search is one of those fields where you can spank the competition - men and women - and have clear-cut, measurable results that *PROVE* you’re damn good at what you do.
And because the SERP’s don’t lie, no one can argue.
In “softer” fields (by softer I only mean less directly measurable), like IM or affiliate marketing - where the there’s a lot of image that comes into play - it’s tougher to be a woman and receive the same respect a man gets. Being a woman colors some people’s view of you.
I get comments all the time that specifically reference my gender, my children and my position as a mother - and I think it’s weird because I don’t talk about either. Reading men’s blogs, I don’t see that kind of comment as much. But the fact that I am a woman and a mother does seem to be at the forefront of some people’s minds. I imagine that since it’s seemingly so important to them that they mention it, it also colors their view of me.
Anyway… Being a woman online is a hell of a lot better then it was for me in old-school banking business world. Tough crowd, there, as far as gender neutrality goes! I’ll take SMO any day!
When did you start wearing a bra anyhow? ;)
Seriously though, great post, Rae! FWIW, I enjoy watching you “make history.”
Very interesting. I am proud of being a woman as well. I try to look nice when I go out and look all girly, but deep down I am a big computer, Internet and Star Wars geek :-)
*SIGH*
http://smackdown.blogsblogsblogs.com/2007/08/06/rand-fishkin-the-troll-defense/#comment-70
“Jane: Hi, I’m Jane, and 2 of the reasons Rand might not reply to criticisms are if the critic is a troll or doesn’t use facts. {pretty smile}”
Come a long way, haven’t we? At least someone thinks I smile pretty. Must remember to tell husband of exciting prettiness news.
Jane, sorry, that was because this comment from Igor on your last blog post was still fresh in my mind:
http://www.seomoz.org/blog/when-to-respond-to-criticism-and-when-to-keep-quiet#jtc31632
I didn’t mean to be a sexist pig, sorry.
Nice save :D
Finally getting up to speed on blog posts and wanted to say that I’ve been on both sides of the fence. I’ve had my ass smacked by a pig at work, I’ve been called hormonal rather than rightfully pissed and I’ve been asked to fetch coffee “hun” when the task was completely beyond my job description and a male intern was up to the challenge.
BUT… getting paid $10k more than a male peer: Priceless.
I completely agree with the desire to not want respect for doing my job as a woman (I’d be insulted if I got that), but respect for kicking ass at whatever I do. Unfortunately, there are some undeniable gaps that still exist and my drive is often confused with being cold or bitchy rather than a respectable work ethic for guys. That sucks, but with experience I’m hoping I learn how to deal with it or bypass issues entirely.
Rae this is superb! Way to go. I share your sentiments exactly, and to the letter.
Rae,
As a professional skier I’m constantly around women that share your attitude to a t.
Anyone at the top of their field has a few commonalities in their qualities, at least some point in their life. Conviction, confidence, and a little bit of a daring attitude; All qualities that the people in action sports have as well (as one of the commenters mentioned).